Thinking in Brussels, major European capitals is to do more about strategic autonomy, says Greece NSA

Greece’s National Security Advisor Athanasios Ntokos on Wednesday said that the current sentiment in Brussels and other major European capitals is that “we need to do more about European strategic autonomy and invest more on defence” in the light of shifting global dynamics.

Speaking with Firstpost Managing Editor Palki Sharma at Firstpost’s IdeasPod as part of the annual Raisina Dialogue organised by Observers Research Foundation (ORF) in partnership with the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA), Ntokos expressed a commitment to collaborate with the US and said that Europe is now trying to understand what is the thinking of the new American administration.

“Of course, on the European side, we’ll keep trying to work with Washington as much as we can. But at the same time, we need to be preparing ourselves. So the thinking now in Brussels and major European capitals is that we need to do more, more about European strategic autonomy, invest more on defence,” said the Greece NSA.

Highlighting the disparity in defence spending, he said that while Greece allocates around 3% of its GDP to defence due to various geopolitical factors, the average defence expenditure among European countries remains well below 1.5% which is definitely not enough.

“So the decision has been made that both individual European countries, but also the EU as a whole, will be spending more on defence and also strengthening our strategic autonomy. The focus is not only defence, it’s about security, it’s about resilience, it’s about dealing with new threats,” added Ntokos.

When asked where does that leave Nato? Ntokos said, “Nato, at least the European thinking, is that Nato is still the most important military alliance, the cornerstone of European security, and will try to keep it strong and useful for as long as we can. Hopefully the same thinking will will be adapted by Washington.”

To a question whether Nato can operate as a cohesive force when Americans are talking about playing ice hockey with the Russians, the Greece NSA said, “Look, Nato has adapted to many changes since the end of the Cold War. Nato is a very flexible and adaptive organisation, so it can, you know, absorb various shocks. Now, again, let’s not, you know, try to predict what will happen over the next few days and weeks because developments may surprise us. But I think there’s still a a majority in Washington that believes in the in the value of Nato, of keeping Nato strong and alive.”

On Washington asserting claims over Canada, Greenland and Panama, he said, “Panama Canal again, its in the early phases of a new administration. I think we should give them more time.”

When asked about the growing influence of non-state actors and high-tech companies like Starlink, Ntokos acknowledged the complexities of the security environment.

“Its not something new because non-state actors have been important players for many years, but having high-tech corporations and even individuals having so much power, this is a new element and we need to assess that. It’s complicated and already complicated, very complex security environment. You know, one of the problems is that we still have the physical dimension, physical space and all the conventional threats. And at the same time we also have digital space and all kind of digital and cyber threats. So this is a very complicated security environment and what you just mentioned, high-tech companies and individuals, you know, having too much power, this is further complicating the situation. We need to think how to manage that,” added Ntokos.

In the context of trade and security, Greece faces a complex relationship with China, particularly regarding its significant presence in the Port of Piraeus, the largest port in Greece.

Ntokos explained that when Greece privatised the port approximately 15 years ago, China was the sole investor.

Now, however, Greece is navigating this situation carefully.

“So we made clear to our Chinese friends that we don’t like to see any new investment in critical infrastructure. And we kept China out of our 5G system. And we are monitoring what is happening in the port of Piraeus because we believe in the motto, trust but verify. So China is an important country politically and economically, but there is a framework of relations set by both the EU and NATO and Greece is abiding by that,” said Ntokos.

When asked if it was mistake to give majority stake to the Chinese in the port, Ntokos said, “Well, if we had the option of choosing a European or American company, I suspect that we would have made that choice. I suppose that’s an argument that a lot of countries can make that end up as victims of China’s debt trap diplomacy, that they have clear developmental goals and needs and those needs are not being met by the global financial infrastructure.”

In response to the argument that many countries may fall victim to China’s so-called “debt trap diplomacy”, given that these countries have specific developmental goals and needs that are not adequately addressed by the global financial system. Consequently, the only option available to them often comes from China, which offers loans and those loans are taken and then it follows the same pattern, Ntokos said, “What you said applies to a number of countries, but I want to be fair with China, they have made a significant investment in the port of Piraeus.

“And this has been a success story both for China but also for Greece, because now the port of Piraeus is probably the largest port of the Mediterranean. So in our case, that trap doesn’t apply. It has been a successful partnership for both sides,” he added.

On the topic of internal security, Ntokos said that Greece has been fortunate to avoid significant radicalisation incidents. However, he recognised the ongoing threat and the influence of social media in promoting radicalisation and emphasized the importance of learning from the experiences of other European countries to mitigate these risks.

The conversation also touched on the challenges posed by migration, which has become a divisive political issue across Europe. Ntokos said that while Greece has historically been an entry point for migrants to the EU, the influx of young, single men presents integration challenges.

He advocated for a common EU asylum policy to better share the responsibilities among member states.

Addressing the humanitarian aspects of migration, the Greece NSA remarked, “Many Europeans understand the circumstances that compel people to leave their homes due to violence or poverty.” However, he also acknowledged that rising numbers can lead to backlash and political divisiveness.

On the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, which has been characterised as both a geopolitical struggle and a traditional military engagement, Ntokos highlighted the dual aspects of conventional warfare — where two armies face off — and the modern technological elements are at play.

“Well, the interesting thing about Ukraine is that it is both an old type of war, any new type of war. So you have the the physical dimension, 2 armies fighting each other. Some of the tactics remind us of the Second World War or even First World War. But then you have all that new technology being used by both sides, you know, drones, information coming from satellites. At the same time you have an information warfare taking place between Russia on the one hand and Ukraine and its allies on the other. So it’s a very interesting conflict. We think that this is going to be the the shape of future warfare,” he added.

Finally, he discussed the strengthening ties between Greece and India in various sectors, including defence and technology. Both countries are collaborating on projects like the India-Middle East-Europe Economic Corridor, which aims to enhance connectivity and trade.

“Well, both sides are trying to build a strategic partnership. The relations are excellent. We’re working in various fields… There is also good personal relationship between two prime ministers and perhaps the most iconic project on which Greece and India are trying to cooperate is IMAX, the India Middle East Europe Economic Corridor. So India thinks, and of course Greece agrees that we are because of geography, one of the entry points to the EU. So we’re working together to make this project happen. And there’s also, I must add significant interest of Indian companies to invest in Greece and a number of Greek companies are looking into the Indian market. So I think the prospects are very positive,” said the Greek NSA.